DKP question

[WhiteTadpole]

  So I had 1 question about the runs through SSC and Gruuls the other night. I know the dkp matter is kinda confusing, so heres my question. Some DPS plate bracers dropped that no one needed.. I didnt really need them myself but at end ended up taking them cause no one else wanted them. When I took them I was trying to explain that my dps bracers were just as good or really close. When I checked the dkp sheet i got charged 69 dkp for something I didn't really NEED. I was under the impression that items as such would be charged less dkp like 1/3. So I just want to know if this was correct so that I dont take future items that arent much of an upgrade for outrageous dkp, or just a misprint or confusion? plz reply.

[Drumble]

If you are going to use something for your main spec -- you should spend the DKP for it. Yes there are (shady) ways around this -- saying you dont want it, and opening it up for a bid/roll starting at 10.  However, ANYONE can roll against you.  In fact, I whispered to Phrikk that I would before I realized that you wanted them. We have one shaman in the raid, and he pays full DKP for items.  This means that he'll be forever and a day to get his T5, but it's the right thing to do -- taking upgrades that you will use. I hear people say "Oh I dont want to spend my DKP on that, I'm saving it for this" and I think it's, in a word - stupid.  In more words, I'd have to bleep expletives and apologize later.  We NEED to advance and we need people to take gear advancements to do it. "not much of an upgrade" is not a measurable thing, if you dont want it -- you dont want it.  If you do want it, you do.  I hope you want upgrades.  I spent/spend hundreds of gold for a few points in effective health or armor or what have you.  I know I'm not the prime example of things since I could pull rank as MT ... but I think I can get a "hell yeah" from most people on this.  Enchant well + Gem well + Upgrade well == Advance.    

[Han]

It brings up the whole side-grade thing, which is something we have struggled with wrapping our dkp system around.  I sympathize with what you are asking about White, because I struggle with similar issues.  The general rule we have applied is that, like Chuunks said, if you are going to wear it in a raid, you should pay full dkp for the item, as it benefits the raid and will help kill more bosses faster = more dkp for everyone, including you.  If its truly a sidegrade that you may or may not wear, it would be bid upon starting at 10dkp, but then you are rolling against most likely all the warriors in the raid, and possibly a pally, so you have less chance to get it.  One more point on the dkp system - the loot tables of these bosses is relatively small if you think about old school 40 man raids and how many runs it took to see 1 of an item, much less enough to go around.  In reality, you (as the only dps warrior atm) will have first dibs on dps plate no matter your dkp.  I am in the same situation, I get healing mail defaulted to me and I just hang out at the very bottom of the chart   In the future, if you don't want an item and its a sidegrade, just let it be sharded or go to a prot warrior.  69 dkp is a pretty small price to pay for an item, and remember its all relative.  You will move up pretty fast as people spend 100+ on a t5 token.  Try to think of the system less as "paying" for an item as just waiting your turn for an epic to drop.  People getting gear before you have had to wait longer without a drop.

[Jon]

Yeah, I understand what you mean White.  I think a lot of us have now spent dkp on items that are a sidegrade and maybe haven't been used in a raid yet, and there's some initial frustration that happens with that.  But like you and Hahn, I'm currently the only spec of my class in the raid (resto druid)  so it's important that I spend my dkp on any possible upgrades, even if it's situational.  With specs that have more competition for these drops (cloth dps gear) I can imagine even a greater desire to hold out for uber items....but it's still important that all upgrades are being taken with dkp and not sharded or sent to off specs just because it's a minor upgrade.  Our mantra as a guild is progression > purples.  Part of this game is the joy of getting good loots, but I think we strive to be a guild based on team effort and future progression.  So although with DKP it focuses more on my time = my loots, we are trying to use it in a way that values fairness but is also somewhat team oriented.  It's still a work in progress, but I think it's starting to work better than our initial few weeks.

[Hardwigg]

Again, people need to stop 'saving it up' for that one special item they want.  I mean, if something is an upgrade for somebody, they should HAVE to be interested.  Should we also start looking at people's gear and be telling them 'Look, this is an upgrade for you, take it'?  Otherwise people will still hoard their points.

[Kaittlynn]

I am glad you brought this up White, and I hope that it has helped you out a little bit.  The big thing is that people *hold out* DKP for that one special item.  We don't really need to be holding out.  You got an item!  Yay!  Pretty much DKp follows the same raiding ideal that we had before -- One purple per run-- only since we dont get 25 items a night, it carries over a few runs so that everyone gets a chance to get something.  DKP is frustrating at times, but don't think so much about the points, just think about  the fact that you got an item. If I got an off-spec piece of Jazzmynn, in most instances I would pass on the next purple even if it was good for me so that someone else could get a shot at coming out with something.  Also, what Chuunks was sayin about payin a ton for minor upgrades, that is soo true.  Pretty much a lot of this will be minor upgrades up to BT.  When we are purpled out, we gotta just take the small ups when we can get em!  Hope this helps ya!  If you still have concerns, post more, or talk to one of the officers if you dont think we are getting your meaning /hug