Forged Alliance

Thanks to Chuunks for tht template... going to borrow it for this thread This lineup is not set in stone so please dont be discurraged if I have forgotten anyone or you are on the "sub" list.  We always need to have more than 10 folks on any given night to balance things out or to sub on a guildee who just cannot make that night.  It is only a representation of the scheduling/ committments from folks I have heard from so far.  It will take a few weeks to iron out all of the details.  Please feel free to comment and let me know if I have left anyone off.TURSRAID INVITES:  7:30 >> 7:45    FIRST PULL:   8 PM SERVERSUNRAID INVITES:  7:00 >> 7:15    FIRST PULL:   7:30 PM SERVERMain Raid Team:Healer    -    FionaaHealer    -    MenderHealer/DPS    -     BlaveMT    -    MahnalorOT/DPS    -    ThandrennDPS    -    AnotherDPS    -    LiberacheDPS    -    IdravenlDPS    -    DrpDPS    -    GwynhwfarSun we may lose Fionna but gain Dixiemartin and Hardwigg. We'll have to see how things works out.  There are certain bosses that we will most likely have some switch-outs.  We'll chat about this when that time comes.Additional Guildees:Healer    -    Maggotmilk (alt - though we would lose Another)OT/DPS    -    Gathgor*Modified to remove those who are not attuned yet.  This gives us a clearer picture of our current situation.  Those that still have yet to be attuned are Kurumi, Syrinixia, Xandor, and a few others that are very close.  Required Add-ons: (Available on the main page of our website)KLH ThreatmeterDeadly Boss Mods (La Vendetta)Consumables:Please be sure to equip yourself with the appropriate consumables.  Though there is quite the variety of consumable to bring on a raid night, the basics should include:Healing PotsMana PotsBandaidsFood BuffsRaiding Prep: Please be sure to take a look at your current equipment to see if there is quest loot out there that can easily be obtained to improve what you are currently wearing.  There is an easy way of doing this in the World of Warcraft Armory.  Just click on the upgrade button next to your gear and it will bring up a list of upgrades - both quest and drop. Now is the time to really focus on your main (if you have alts) to make them the best toon they can be .  Not that we all havent, but thought I would just throw that out there   General Raiding:  On the night of the raid, please be sure that you have repaired all of your armor and have some bag space for drops. More to come...

So I wasn't really aware that by not attending this meeting in vent I would simply be placed in a group arbitrarily.  Yes, I am generally more available on the weekends and would like to raid on Sundays.  I will try to be here on weekday nights, but cannot guarantee it.  If I'm home on time I would like to be considered for any group that is running Kara and do not appreciate being told which group I'm allowed to raid in.And though it may be selfish, I've already gone through ALL the fights (except Nightbane) and ALL the Karazhan growing pains already, and have no desire to do so again.  While I realize it would be unfair to routinely join a group on Sunday to down the final bosses without participating in clearing the earlier ones, it's just as unfair to be asked to start all over again.Having meetings, schedules, raid assignments, and obligations start making a fun passtime a little too serious.

You can remove me from this list if you want. The guild style has recently evolved into something I don't enjoy; I don't really have much of an interest in being in a big raiding guild (it all feels like more of a chore where you can't mess up or everyone'll get pissed at you, rather than something fun... ie. a GAME). Also starting at 8 is too late for me. Plus being dropped down to a sub on the second string team blows. Going back to failing at Attumen is also not something I feel like doing, after having done in ages ago when we all started Kara.I've been waffling with quitting the game anyway and I think this might've helped me decide. Although, I still like leveling, so maybe I'll just stick with that.

Well thanks for your candid responses Hardwigg and Dixie. The point is to get more folks in to experience parts of the game that is difficult to do without a guild. That is part of the fun of playing this game... experiencing new things... after all... you have to start somewhere.  We will be doing some 25-man content soon and of course we hope you and Dixie will be a big part of that.The point of the groups was not to require folks to be in a certain group or assign anyone to a group arbitrarily...  The groups were put together based on availability.  As we started gaining new members who wanted to go to Kara, we couldnt just shut them out.  Alot of folks have to actually plan their WOW time to be on at a certain time.  We can't just simply say "be on at this time and you 'may' get in." That can be quite discuraging to folks who really want to extend their fun by experiencing the newer content.  By organizing another group, we are extending our hands out and saying "come along and join us."When all is said and done we all have choices to make. I apologize if the raiding schedule and/or new group make up does not fit your needs.  There are 20+ folks that we are trying to accomodate and sometimes there are difficulties in getting everyone in.  This part of the game requires some sort of commitment on some level.  Should we need the experience of Hardwigg or Dixie in some of the harder bosses, or at anytime we are short for that matter,  we hope you would consider helping us out.  You two have been invaluable assets in getting us to where we are today.  -Mahnalor 

I'm working hard on getting Syrinxiarra attuned for Kara so I will have another toon for a dps slot soon.  She is on the 3rd key step right now. R

Since we are speaking candidly.... I think everyone thinking about this needs to keep this in mind:  The past 3 or 4 weeks, there have been more guild members who have NOT been able to raid AT ALL than those who have had the "privelege" to be invited to a raid.  There are people who are dying to get just one night in.  Personally, I have stepped aside to let our new members into the raids so they don't jump ship before we even get a single attempt at 25 man content.  I would much rather share a spot on team B than hop on my pedestal on team A and watch 15 other guild members not be able to experience the content.  If there is anything that needs to be adjusted, it should be who is on which raid team.  I feel like we should have two teams, and refer to them as the "early" and "late" teams.  We start them at different times (since we have people all over the world in our guild) and then people choose based on time they are available.  Maybe thats a terrible idea, but I digress.I know there have been hard feelings about this switch to two teams... I think we need to keep in mind that our goal here is not clearing karazhan, but rather getting to Gruul's so we don't have to worry about who is on what team anymore.  Seriously, having 10 or 12 of us in full karazhan epics is not going to do a damn thing in Gruul's Lair and beyond.  We need 25 people with good gear.  In short, yes I do think its selfish to worry about which team you are on, maybe we can rotate, where someone goes with one team the first week and the other team the second week.  This is what Koko and I are planning on doing. 

Hardwigg wroteSo I wasn't really aware that by not attending this meeting in vent I would simply be placed in a group arbitrarily.  Yes, I am generally more available on the weekends and would like to raid on Sundays.  I will try to be here on weekday nights, but cannot guarantee it.  If I'm home on time I would like to be considered for any group that is running Kara and do not appreciate being told which group I'm allowed to raid in.And though it may be selfish, I've already gone through ALL the fights (except Nightbane) and ALL the Karazhan growing pains already, and have no desire to do so again.  While I realize it would be unfair to routinely join a group on Sunday to down the final bosses without participating in clearing the earlier ones, it's just as unfair to be asked to start all over again.Having meetings, schedules, raid assignments, and obligations start making a fun passtime a little too serious.

I'm sympathetic to timing issues -- lets work it out.  BUT we have to work it out within the groups and you're going to either decide precisely when you WILL be there, or negotiate something with a person who has assured the rest of the team that they will be there.  I'm not sure if you were with us on those nights months back where we waited around for one or two peole to "maybe" show up, it sucks - you dont want to PuG for someone who might show up 2 minutes later -- so is it fair to the 9 other folk to post someone in a reserved spot that isn't going to be 100% reliable?When you say you're definately going to be there, IMHO you can have a spot in either raid team you want -- and we'll work it out with fairness (Krikor/Miramel/Mahonri are working out a rotation).  You've definately put in the dues, you shouldn't have to "suffer through a learning curve" but at the same time -- you have a lot of experience to bring to establish a team and I honestly dont think either of our teams will suffer by any means.  I think if we have a stoppage one week -- we can analyze it and move forward the next week progressively if it means swapping people.  The two times we've gone in and failed miserably were when we had undergeared tanks who were somewhat new to the instance, and at this point I think we're set.  Right now we're like starved dogs fighting over a morsel to get into these raid spots -- all this should go away when we have the numbers to do 25-man instances and/or Zul-Aman releases.  But really what it comes down to is this, same thing I told the three rogues who ended up in the Tuesday group -- you need to solve the problem, we're friends and will figure out a way to make it work fairly.  You know your schedule -- you know what we're trying to set up and our eventual goals.  How can we help?  When can you make it?  Negotiate with the DPS for certain days, or perhaps have someone fill in for you until you can get home?  Like I said -- I see and sympathize with the problem, I wish I could offer the solution.

dixiemartin wroteYou can remove me from this list if you want. The guild style has recently evolved into something I don't enjoy; I don't really have much of an interest in being in a big raiding guild (it all feels like more of a chore where you can't mess up or everyone'll get pissed at you, rather than something fun... ie. a GAME). Also starting at 8 is too late for me. Plus being dropped down to a sub on the second string team blows. Going back to failing at Attumen is also not something I feel like doing, after having done in ages ago when we all started Kara.I've been waffling with quitting the game anyway and I think this might've helped me decide. Although, I still like leveling, so maybe I'll just stick with that.

I was the one yelling at you in the red beam -- sorry about that.  I'll blame the battle-frenzy - but you're right, it is a game.  And actually it worked out fairly well using you as the swap for the red beam with me going in and out kind of like what Myrdinn and I attempted when owning the red for the whole phase.  Like I replied to Hardwigg's post -- this is more of a scheduling thing than anything, the later group and the earlier group.  I dont think either team should fail so hard ... and you're using an extreme comparison to bolster your point.  You're not being shoved to a "sub position on the second string team" -- and referring to it as that is -- let me retype this 20 times to put it politely, "rude".If you want to raid -- you're going to be part of a team.  At that point it becomes more than a "game", it becomes a team sport.  It's going to take some committment and some effort on your part.  If you want to be part of that -- cool, if you want to level -- cool.  We're all friends -- it's all good -- what would you have us do?

I see no problem working out a rotation for the DPS slots.  Last night it worked great, except when we had to kill moroes twice   But the plan was to swap in the dps for each boss they needed a drop from.  So if we have 6 dps and 3 slots, we all park outside, and during the 2-5 minute break after each boss, we swap in whoever has the greatest need for a particular drop or if you just plain want to tag out or in.  This obviously binds more people to the instance, but if we have enough people in the other group, it should be fine.  Dan, if you can't show up until a little later, you can certainly take my spot when you do show up, as I like it a little earlier these days.  Whatever I can do to keep us all raiding and progressing, I am willing to do.

I agree as well. Yesterday worked out well, I am not saying that because I got my dagger, I am saying that cause miramel could not make it to Wednesdays run, and Mahonri is pretty well geared, so it was Miramel and I that needed loot from the earlier bosses. Now for next week, I am planning on sitting out and hopefully running with the Thursday/Sunday group since that is what we rogues are planning to do to make it fair. Also for instance take Maiden for example, I would be more than happy to sit out in that battle since it is more for ranged dps, Also if there is bosses I don't need anything I am more than happy to swap out for people that need it. Just ask and we can arrange something, this is going for all the raiders as well, if you need to swap or go early or something or you will be late, we can always accomodate and have someone run in there instead of waiting for that person to sow up and slow things down.  I am more than happy to run with both groups or whenever needed.  I am sure things will fall into place after we give these trials a few tries for a few weeks and see how it goes and if need be switching some group members from both raids then let's do it. Lets try to get both groups going and I know we all want to run kara and finish it, but it will take the experience of the raiders that have cleared most of it to give pointers and information to the new group that is going.